Developing a Successful Exit Strategy with Todd Taskey

In this episode of Agency Journey, Gray MacKenzie sits down with Todd Taskey, M&A Advisor for Potomac Business Capital, to talk about developing a valuable exit strategy. Todd shares his tips for generating recurring revenue, calculating your profit margin, and growing your company for a future exit. Plus, Todd also shares how Potomac Business Capital can help your agency — even if you’re not ready for the full exit process. Stay tuned for more.
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Todd Taskey has been an entrepreneur, business owner, investment banker, and business finance advisor for over 20 years. He is currently the M&A Advisor for Potomac Business Capital, where he helps CEOs and entrepreneurs maximize their company’s value and develop a successful exit strategy. His specialties include M&A, strategic acquisition, divestitures, and more.

In addition to his role at Potomac Business Capital, Todd is an Angel Investor at multiple companies, including Zoomph, StreetShares, and LiveSafe. He has also been a founding investor, board member, and part of the management team for several business ventures throughout his career.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Todd Taskey discusses his journey into the M&A space
  • How can agencies maximize their opportunities and scale their businesses?
  • The goals your agency should set for recurring revenue and retention — and how to achieve them
  • Todd’s tips for increasing your profit margin
  • The key financial factors to keep in mind when preparing to exit your business
  • Where to learn more about Todd Taskey and Potomac Business Capital’s services

In this episode…

Successfully exiting your business can be difficult as a small agency. How do you ensure that your organization is prepared for a profitable sale? And, what steps can you take to maximize your value and sell your company for a higher price?

M&A advisor and exit planning strategist, Todd Taskey, is here to share everything you need to know about the exit process. For both buyers and sellers, there are key financial factors to keep in mind in order to get the most out of a transaction. These include gap accounting, taking time to improve your EBITDA and ROI, and developing a high retention rate among employees and clients. So, what is Todd’s advice to agency owners looking to take the leap and make an exit?  

In this episode of Agency Journey, Gray MacKenzie sits down with Todd Taskey, M&A Advisor for Potomac Business Capital, to talk about developing a valuable exit strategy. Todd shares his tips for generating recurring revenue, calculating your profit margin, and growing your company for a future exit. Plus, Todd also shares how Potomac Business Capital can help your agency — even if you’re not ready for the full exit process. Stay tuned for more.  

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Resources Mentioned in this episode

Episode Transcript:

Gray MacKenzie  0:13  

Hey as we're diving into today's episode of Agency Journey, let me tell you real quickly about our sponsor Oribi. Oribi is a super cool on one marketing analytics tool. They've got Google Analytics squarely in their sights right now. And I can remember setting up Google Analytics as a sophomore in college and thinking this was just the coolest platform. And as its matured, it's still super powerful. But it's become so complex to deal with. And Oribi has a value prop totally aside from this. But what I absolutely love about my experience plugging Oribi into ZenPilot Python is I didn't have to mess around with setting up what events I wanted to capture and tracking all my changes. And if I missed the view, then it would, it would delete all the data that I had. I just plugged it in a crawl that captured all our all of our events made it super easy to see our funnel. And it just works a little bit. You'll see for example, how many people read the Definitive Guide to click up for agencies a blog post that I wrote, I don't know six months ago, see where those folks come from how that influences the buying process, the funnel the way that it works out. So super excited to have Oribi as a sponsor, you check it out, go to journey, it's all one word. If you spin up a free trial there, use the coupon code agencyjourney, same thing all one word, that'll give you 20% off any plan, which is super generous of them. Remember, they can track all of our conversions. So check them out. That's, we appreciate their sponsorship. And let's get on with the episode. All right, welcome into another episode of Agency Journey. This week, I have the pleasure of bringing Todd Taskey on to the podcast. Todd is an M&A advisor and has worked with a number of agencies. And he's in a little bit different space than a number of M&A advisors who, at least personally not through the agency space, but who have been connected to where most of them are not focused on agency or the the that end of the market. So Todd, I'm super excited to have you on dig into your story and talk a lot today about the path for agencies talking about the way to maximise enterprise value of the thing that they're working so hard to build. But if you haven't on Welcome to the podcast, thanks. I'm super happy to be here. Cool. So let's let's start here, which is quick bio, I guess, in terms of the firm that you're in, when maybe not even bio, but how did you get into M&A space?

Todd Taskey  2:24  

You know, I spent my first 20 years as a financial planner, was a certified financial planner. And we built a small firm that we sold to a group, that group was later acquired by Goldman Sachs had a couple people that I knew that wanted some help, and a lot of my practice was around working with and helping entrepreneurs. So that was kind of a natural segue, you know, from that perspective?

Gray MacKenzie  2:50  

Yep, that makes sense. So and then from an agency side, or how did you get into this, the market that you're in, specifically in the types of opportunities that you're focused on? Now?

Todd Taskey  2:58  

You know, I, I think in a lot of business, you get attracted to similar type personalities? Yep. You know, agency owners seem to fit largely a psychographic and demographic that it may be matches up with mine. So I've enjoyed working with those people. I like I understand that business. Well, I'm fascinated by the space. So and then, you know, success begets success. And we go on from there. Yep.

Gray MacKenzie  3:28  

So we got introduced originally by a good friend, Jeremy Weisz of Rise25. And as it turns out, there's some other folks who we've got in common in terms of shared clients who have worked with and so it's cool to have anytime that there's connections around a common people that we know that was how we got connected to one of my friends, Joey Gilkey from Sales Driven Agency worked with a couple of agencies where they were crossover. And he's kind of consistently producing good results in the sales side. So super excited to talk to you today and dig into and what you're seeing around agency path. So let's start in terms of the way that agencies build businesses and grow and exit plan. Very rarely, you know, this, as well as anybody but for the audience as well. Agencies pretty much come from one of two places, either someone was in the agency world, and they got tired of having a boss who's making all the money perceives money. And so they go out and start their own thing. Or it's someone who just happened to be talented in one area that started as freelance and then decided I've got more demand here than I want, and maybe intentionally or unintentionally, I thought, well, I need to start hiring people. And there's a lot of accidental agency owners out there as well. Nobody goes into the agency business saying let me build the business because that's a really valuable asset to sales. But but that needs to be learned somewhere along the way. So you were just kind of explaining how you think about the paths for agency owners in terms of building it out, maybe talk a little bit about how agencies can think about what they've built and the journey that they're going to maximize.

Todd Taskey  5:01  

Sure. So quick backdrop that I think is important. And we've been doing digital marketing transactions for, you know, several years now. And we've seen a shift of private equity drives a lot of transactions, either directly or with portfolio companies that they add more on to private equity understands now it because as every all your listeners know, last year, for the first time, we had 51% of all spend was in digital, that's projected to go up, nobody thinks it's going backwards. Five years ago, private equity with buyers would say to me, yeah, but when we hit a recession, I don't know what's going to happen to this business. Now, now we have the answer to that, right. So the bounce back quicker than than any other business. So private equity has religion in this space. Private Equity realises that this is the future of marketing and advertising. And so there's tremendous tailwind from that sample. So that's, that should be a great message for all of your listeners, and even the accidental guys, you know, many of these deal trophies over my shoulder are agencies that were very valuable to different degrees. And so helping to, to uncover that value. And create that value, I think is a lot of what you do maximising that at the end doing a successful transaction is what we do. Most of the people we work with, have EBITDA, right, net profit, let's call it between 1,000,003 million, right? So somewhere between 1,000,003 million. And so after you get over the hump of Oh, my God, can we survive? The question for a lot of guys is, you know, what's the best path forward for my business. And as I tell people all the time, that the road from a million of EBITDA to 5 million, even though is a very well worn path. Right? Lots of people have done this is not a straight path by any stretch. And it's not an easy path. Right. But if you want to go do that on your own, absolutely, you should. But one of the things that we represent as an alternative to that is, instead of doing that growing agency, keeping all of your wealth tied up in the agency, and then spending some of your future income on growing agency, and all the challenges that come with that, what if we could plug into a place where we could become an important part of their overall solution, and participate in the upside equity of that business and get cash at close. And so for example, right at the end of the year, we did a transaction. We helped our client, a company called Bayshore Solutions, a very good HubSpot partner. And we sold them to a larger HubSpot partner. And those guys are doing tremendous work and will do exciting things going forward. Right, we have a deal that should be closing here in the next week, where we have clients that does email marketing. For e-commerce customers only very nice, narrow focus, right fits in this nice box, we put a nice bow on the box, and then I can show it around to a bunch of people, right. And what a lot of larger companies are looking for. Is is what they would call to complete an ark of services. A lot of people hear this term, a roll up strategy. And a roll up strategy is is not isn't not the, I think the right way to think of it. A lot of private equity groups use the term buy and build. So they don't want to buy five SEO agencies to be a bigger SEO agency. But what they will do is buy an SEO shop, pay per click shop content, social email. And so they've got this arc of services where they can manage one client through across all of these things. And and so what we see is that as EBITDA gets larger, right, so if you're in a million dollars of EBITDA, and you have a lot of recurring revenue, and you have good client retention, at a million bucks, you could trade for somewhere between six and maybe up to six and a half or seven times on eBay. If you're over 3 million, definitely you're at eight, eight plus on even if you get over 10 million of EBITDA. That's a 12, 13, 14 times business. So the way I look at it when I talk to my clients, let's just make it up and say you're a million bucks. Let's say that's fine. I have six, six and a half times. How can we turn those chips that you have that equity into not six times, but 12 times either? Well, there's two ways to do it grow from a million to 10 million, right? That is a lifelong journey. Number two, sell those chips to somebody, take some cash now, and then exchange your chips for those chips. Right. And so we did a transaction, a group that we have under letter of intent. Now, the buyer has 18 million. They're a digital marketing firm, they really don't do performance, they don't do performance well at all. And they want, they want more than just one performance shop. So if there's anybody listening is doing performance that likes the idea, we'd love to talk to him, they will plug into that the kind of the structure that we have for them is that they'll get roughly two thirds in cash, and 1/3 in in equity in the new company. And when that new company, the buyer, when they sell in, I would guess a couple of years, they'll get cashed out at a much larger multiples. So they get what they get today, and then they'll have that second bite in the future. So those are some of the alternatives when you have a business. And I know you spent a lot of your time talking to clients about this. I'm not talking about three or four guys scrambling around trying to serve customers as best they can. I'm talking about people that have processes and accounting rigour, and know what it is that they're doing and know who they're doing it for. So that they can point to recurring revenue and retention and good customers. Right? away.

Gray MacKenzie  11:50

Click into one thing that you said there around recurring revenue and retention. When you think of that, so the difference between 5x and a 6x. Multiple, what, because that comes up all the time with agencies, you know, HubSpot made an awful lot of money by pitching agencies and moving over to retainers and getting that recurring revenue. And the pros and cons match, right? Well, yeah, pros and cons of all that. So what percentage in terms of and I don't know that there's specific numbers, but there's probably some loose numbers that you might have, obviously, these all work in harmony together. So just because if you've got high recurring revenue, but low client retention, then you might as well do new projects. But when you say recurring revenue, is that like, what are some good numbers that maybe agents could be shooting for? Is it 70% 80%? I was it depends on the Yeah, I mean,

Todd Taskey  12:45  

so there's a there's obviously some nuance in here. And this is what bankers do, right? Yep. The higher the number, the better. And we've got some goats that working with now where they've got almost 100% recurring revenue. Yes, that's what their models, right? Nothing's completely that pure. Because especially if you're doing web dev, right, or you're enhancing a website, but the key to that is, and we will stress this, anytime we put a presentation or a deck together 100% of revenue comes from recurring revenue clients. So we got these guys that pays 2000 a month, 8000 a month, whatever the number would be. And those people we will do web development for, right? If somebody calls up and says, Hey, can you do web dev? For us? That's great. That's all we need? The answer is no, we don't do that. Right? So there's recurring revenue, contraction and recurring revenue. And then there's banker stakes, or what we call reoccurring revenue, right? Because these guys, and you know, some clients, you can control on your contract, and some clients say, we will send you our contract, and you'll sign it, or we're going to go to those guests. Right. So some of those people, you know, they will come back year after year after year, but they only signed one of your contracts, your one year engagements. So we'll build that as reoccurring revenue. And then the buyer will say, Well, how long have you had these guys? We have over seven years? Oh, all right. Well, that makes a difference than somebody that has renewed once, right? So the higher the better, always the higher the better. And that is clearly something worthwhile to adjust your business model to because it becomes easier to manage the business when you have as much of it under contract as possible.

Gray MacKenzie  14:35

Yep, that makes sense. And then from a retention side, you know, I come from the software world where we were building a project management tool for agencies prior to prior to the pivot to what we're doing. I was in pilot or servicing that type of someone else to the software largely, and at the time was so discouraged because it was so hard to get churn below 5% monthly which is not a typical early stage. software and services should be more sticky than that. But are their retention numbers and metrics that you're looking at? And you typically look at it in presentative pe firms the same way where it's monthly churn, like in software, or you talk through annual.

Todd Taskey  15:11  

Yeah. And so so there's a whole bunch of ways to slice that. Right? So it's 2%. retention is 98%. That sounds great. 98% of what we have been able to get them off, right? Well, that's 2% times 12 is 24. So you have like, 76%. Right, right. But 98? sounds way better. That's number one. Number two, you're talking about revenue. Are you talking about logos, we talking about science? I mean, wait, what's the measure here? Right. And, and I think that you want to present honestly, I'll tell you, we sold a business two years ago, a really good business, we sold it eight and a half times on Eve, they were like three half million people. Their retention was not good. And so there's two things. Number one, they offered SEO, they offered pay per click, then they were just starting to offer email. Their retention was so much better when they had two service lines. And for the people that also had email marketing, which was new to them, right, they only been doing it for six months, but they hadn't lost any yet. Yeah. So you tie these people in better. So you see, all these things start to support one another, right. So you have more service lines, what we sold on this, we're eventually sold to a private equity group, and it's been a great transaction for everybody says, I said to the private equity buyer, there is so much opportunity here they are there, their retention can be improved. All you have to do is spend 40 grand on a really good person, have them just follow their 100% job is retention, that number will go up, the value of the company will go up blah, blah, blah. And this is what private equity does is part of one of the chapters of the playbook. Of course, we're going to improve retention. And if we have to spend 40 or 50 grand, not a problem, we're going do that. Right. So. So that is definitely low hanging fruit to look at, the higher the better for both. And I think the message is, because I've sold plenty of companies where I've said, Listen, you know why retentions down? You know why utilization is not where it should be? You know what, because it's hard. When you're a 4 million 5,000,008 revenue company, it's hard to do all these things, right? If they were part of a $50 million business where you guys have a bigger bench, will you guys have more all of these things? Oh, my God, this is gonna be fantastic for them. These guys fit into you perfect. So if you have a weakness, raise your hand and say this is part of the reason why we want to do a transaction. We've been working at this. Where would I know if we had if we do SEO, I know via Pay Per Click social and email, we would retain people better. Yep. That's a five year project for us. If we could plug into that and be part of you guys, and blah, blah, GCP. Fantastic. Yep, it makes a lot of sense. What are you seeing?

Gray MacKenzie  18:19  

So that's helpful. I mean, ultimately, what you're getting is LTV, but a specific way that you get the LTV between retention and how much of it is recurring revenue. What's the software speaking it's ARPU, but average or average contract value. From a margin perspective on these businesses and growth rates, I would assume those are two of the other big variable. How fast do you growing? And then how profitably? are you growing at the same time?

Todd Taskey  18:45  

Yeah. So how fast you're growing is not as important. Right? It's part of the story. I've got a couple of goods now that have been flat for the last three years. Yeah. That's part of the reason we're selling. Right? It just understand who you are. And selling it doesn't make you bad doesn't make the company bad. Right. And I've said many times, you know why they keep doing 9 million a year? Shit. They're doing really well. I mean, they're, they're making 18% or 22%. Both owners are making a bunch of money, they have a boat, they get to go on vacation. Right? This is perfect for you as the buyer. Perfect. Right. These guys will will if you could get rid of some of the the distractions for them around running a business and having focused just on the stuff they're best at. My goodness, off to the races we go. Right.

Gray MacKenzie  19:37  

On the margin side. How big a role does that obviously that's gonna impact. Yes,

Todd Taskey  19:41  

yeah. So a well run agency should be in the high teens. Could be even a percentage could be in the low 20s. I've got a couple now that are in the 30s. There's an important point. I'm glad that we're stuck. On this, if you're doing two or 3 million bucks a year of revenue, you should have three or four, you could be doing 35 40%, even margins. You don't have a CFO, you don't have a head of HR. Maybe you don't even have office space right now, right? There's a lot of things you don't have. You don't just stair step your way, up from 5 million of revenue to 10 million a realm, right at some point, and everybody knows I got a higher head of sales. I gotta hire somebody that can manage the financial engineer, right? You've got these important hires along the way. So if you're thinking, Okay, the from 1 million to 5 million, it's going to go down somewhere, for sure. When I make these investments, and somebody's got to go home and tell my my partner and Hogan Hey, by the way, we're not doing distributions for two, right? I'm not gonna do that, right. So these are, these are the decisions that you have to make. And when you look out, that, that people have made at some point. And so that is another kind of vector point to say, you know, we're going to invest in the, in this beat in these people, you know, hope like hell, the CEO, and the head of sales that we hired are going to turn out, that is so much more difficult than people realise. I'm sure you see this all the time. So if it goes perfectly, it's going to take two years for us to start to see the return on that investment. And then to get even to grow from that note, right. So it's a it's a big commitment it around time. Yep.

Gray MacKenzie  21:43  

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that an accelerating growth, just like Adam Rundle, from CleverProfits, will often say, you know, accelerating a business is just like a car, like, the faster the faster you want accelerate, the more your fuel efficiency goes down, your margins stay the same margin as you as you continue to grow.

Todd Taskey  22:03  

Yeah. And then you just sell into it, you just have to, as long as you're aware of it. With the following that analogy, if you show up at the at the shop or at the gas station, and they say, Wow, how come you're filling up again, so soon? To say I just ran out of gas? That is not the answer people are looking for. You say, Well, geez, I was going 85 miles an hour on a highway. And so my efficiency went down. Oh, geez, that makes sense. I understand. Sure. I understand. Why be I know, you know, if you're going to be part of my team, I want a guy that knows what he's doing. Right. Right. Yeah.

Gray MacKenzie  22:41  

understands what's what's going on? Well, this is kind of the perfect segue into the piece that we're already kind of getting into it. But talking through so if I'm an agency right now, I'm at 10 people, we're doing 1,000,001 215, maybe, depending on how well run we are in top line, which means, you know, on the, on the bottom side, we're doing somewhere between 205 100 and Eva, are there things that those people in those shoes right now should be thinking about? rhame? I want to tackle this a couple different vectors from a corporate structure. Do you care at all about what corporate structure they come into a deal with?

Todd Taskey  23:21  

I mean, I don't because I'll sell whatever it is. Yep, they do. Because there's tax efficiency. For sure. My standpoint, most people are set up as an S corp or an LLC, right, so it doesn't much matter. And with either of those, we can set up the transaction to be tax efficient. So so that part's pretty nice.

Gray MacKenzie  23:40  

from a financial perspective, obviously, the messages and keep good books and probably get that off your plate as early as possible so that somebody else is responsible for it. But anything that's tripped up deals or that causes you problems from a financial perspective.

Todd Taskey  23:55  

One thing that, that interesting thing is the concept of deferred revenue. So deferred revenue, explain it one on one, right? You do a website for somebody, and it costs 50 grand to do the website. somebody pays you make it real simple. 50 grand up front, right? People don't really do that, but they paid 250 grand up front. So what do you do? Put 50 grand in the bank? How do we we just bought 50 grand. This, by the way happened in November? gap? Generally Accepted Accounting Principles says no, no. Because the day you booked it 50 grand, you have to go to your balance sheet and put a line item called deferred revenue for 50 because you haven't earned 250 yet. You haven't done any work. Yep. In theory, you'll earn 10 grand a month for the next five months. Yet in theory, November, December gets booked to this year. January, February, March is booked in next year. That's how gap accounting works. Most people I work with say, Oh, I understand. I'm not going to do that, though, because it's just way too much work. That's ridiculous, right? here's, here's why it's important. If we're going to close a transaction, following up on this example, on December 31, and I'm the buyer, there's 30 grand of work that has to be done. Right. And I get no money for that. I have to pay the people salaries to do the development. That's not fair. So I want the right amount of money for that. Yep. How much is it? Well, just it's on the balance sheet. It's deferred revenue. So when the deal closes, there should be a line item for deferred revenue. Right? Since most guys aren't doing it, when we get to a deal, there's a concept of working capital, you have to leave some cash in the business. And that makes the amount of cash you have to leave in the business or higher. Yeah, people get pissed off at that sellers get pissed off at that. Right. That makes sense.

Gray MacKenzie  26:09  

what it sounds like, what you're saying is that's important. It's an important concept to know about the exit at some point, but not necessarily. Is your recommendation is your recommendation that agencies are practising that the entire way? Or just that they're prepared for that exit?

Todd Taskey  26:23

My recommendation is you should be practising that along the way. Yep. My follow up comments would be yes. In fact, you do. You're the only one doing exactly right. Right. Don't worry about the aware that there will be a concept of deferred revenue. Depending on your size, it'll be a few 10s of 1000s of dollars. Right. And so here's just last quick example. Last two deals we close. We closed on the last day of the month. I'm gonna oversimplify this, but the and these guys have all recurring revenue, right? They do SEO all recurring revenue, they charge a month in advance. Right. So they charge on the first of the month. for that. Yeah, the entire month. So we're closing the deal. Tomorrow, the 21st. Most of the people paid on the first, right, there's 10 days, but there's a month left of work or a week left of work that has to be done. Right. So who's paying for that? Who's paying those salaries? Right? And it gets that granular? Here's a bigger problem. What if you charge a month to start and a month in advance? Your whole life? Now I have a whole month, then I've got in advance that when they quit, I have to deliver work on? Yep. So and so that's, you know, my into one into almost an entire month of revenue is deferred revenue. Wow. Right can be a really big number. Yep. Right. But it's, you know, it's just something to be aware of. Yeah, big concept.

Gray MacKenzie  28:08  

And then I guess the other vector, there's a couple different pieces here. But from a team structure management perspective, I'm assuming that you run into situations, and maybe you're probably close to the point, but I'm assuming that a lot of especially in the million dollar sign, agency owner is still relatively integral to the day to day. Sure.

Todd Taskey  28:27  

Yeah. And by the way, if you say, I'm really not, nobody believes that. Yeah, right. It's just not true. Right? Even even if you're doing three or four or 5 million people. Yep, not true.

Gray MacKenzie  28:41  

From outside of that, are there key hires that you've seen? buyers want to have in place? By the time you go to sell, we want you to have someone else who's the head of client services or your client services? Are there any key functions that made me stand out more than other ones?

Todd Taskey  28:56  

You know, there? I would say no, in terms of key functions. Yep. But what I do want to know is, I'm buying this business, you're doing a million and a half of EBITDA up, right? You're doing 6 million in revenue, a million and a half of EBITDA, I'm willing to pay a fair price for it. I expect to get a million and a half of EBITDA this year, next year in the year after and expect that number to grow. Right? Tell me how that's going to happen. Tell me how it has been happening. demonstrate it, show it. Tell me it's going to continue? Yep. Right. And if if you've had clients for years, if your retention is high, if you're a best place to work, if your Yelp reviews are good, if you've had retention in employees for a long period of time, right. All that goes to that story. Nobody's perfect in any of those things. And again, it's harder when you're smaller. Just you know, right. Sell into it, lean into it. Yep, that makes sense.

Gray MacKenzie  30:00

There's so many more questions I could ask. Todd, this has been super helpful. So let's point people if someone's at that point their million dollars close to a million dollars plus of EBITDA right now and curious about exploring that path. What's the best place for them to learn more and reach out? Yeah, thank you for that. So Potomac Business Capital is the website. You can find me on lengthy and all spelled out, right? Yep. We'll put it in show notes.

Todd Taskey  30:28

Yeah, I'm Todd, Potomac Business Capital, you can send me an email, you can find me on LinkedIn. I've got lots you see this over here, over my shoulder, I get a whole other board over here of people that I've spoken with that have said, Hey, I don't know that I'm quite ready to do a full process, we'll find somebody. But if you had something like this for me, and I'd like to hear about, and we'll spend time talking to them to understand what this really means. And, and keep our eyes open. Right? Yep. So we're always happy to talk. There's, it's it is very difficult to to find the right transaction that one of your listeners is going to be excited about if they're below a million. They're 850 or 950, or something if they're close. And you know, we can work that out because there could be a million next year in the future, right? Especially if they're working with guys like you and the others that you mentioned, that are really helping them grow their their practice. So we can show a road to that. That's great. But you know, we're happy to have the conversation. Happy to have people connect on LinkedIn. And just stay in touch that way and go from there. Awesome. Cool.

Gray MacKenzie  31:45  

Well put that info in the show notes. We'll get your email address in the show notes, probably. Just so you're not getting a ton of spam, but awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on

Todd Taskey  31:54  

and sharing. Yeah, it was great. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

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