Welcome to ClickUp Weekly. My name is Greg McKenzie from Zen Pilot and we've got a ton of good stuff on the show today. We're going to be talking about the timeline for you to transition to ClickUp 4.0 and why you need to take that seriously. We're going to spend more time looking forward at what's on the road map that they just put out uh publicly this week. We've got some fun trivia as always. And I've got some really good stuff off of LinkedIn, some really honest like live interactions. I want to take you in the trenches of what people are actually saying out there each week about ClickUp. So, let's go ahead and dive in. And as we get going, I am obligated to remind you that ClickUp Weekly is presented exclusively by Zenpilot. This is not ClickUp's fault. This is my fault. So, I've shared that before, but this show is not sponsored nor endorsed by ClickUp. Uh, so with that said, let's go ahead and dive in. First thing, the change log. ClickUp did put out change log updates this week. So, let's pull these up and look at these live. And what you'll notice is it's not actually uh a major like new feature or something live. They're talking about what we what we covered last week, which is super agents. and coming up on this show and on the Zenpilot YouTube channel. You want to subscribe to the Zenpilot YouTube channel because not everything's going to be covered here on ClickUp Weekly, but we'll be taking you kind of video by video through the Super Agents that are most impactful and helpful for us and for our customers right now. So, you can see uh here we've got documentation on um super agents and really talking about the key things that make super agents so powerful. So, the fact that you can tag them in comments, um, obviously you can message directly with them, but assign tasks and mention them in comments are two things that not everybody realizes they can use right away. One example of a super agent is for ClickUp Weekly. Uh, I've got a running dock of obviously uh, we'll just flip back here. This is a document itself for ClickUp Weekly, but I have a separate doc that keeps track of all the topics, the guests, the things that I want to have coming in. So, we've got a super agent that scans the workspace and both on a schedule um but also when something specific pops up that hits a um a key topic, it'll add topics into my topic idea uh list that we have. And then if I see something uh so today, this morning for example, uh there was a message that was shared and I just tagged it in in the comments and said, "Hey, add this to the to the topics list." So, uh, that is worth, uh, paying attention to that you can use it in multiple different ways and it's super helpful. It gets the context. It adds it perfectly in. Obviously, you can pick and choose how much other instructions are prompting you want to give it for uh, hey, add some commentary to this. Go do some web research and pull back those notes and share those as well or not. Uh, human skills. So, it's just talking more about like, hey, what can it do? Calendar scheduling, image gen, that kind of stuff. Knowledge and memory is one of the huge advantages of super agents as well. I'm not going to spend a lot of time there because we have so many other areas to cover and because I am under the weather and I'm gonna lose my voice here at some point. Let's talk about our timeline here for ClickUp 4.0. So, this is really important for you to know. Um, and I've got some text in here, but I'm not 100% sure that it's out there publicly. So, I'll just kind of share the the spark notes of it. Uh, right now it's optional. You can turn on 4.0. And my plea to you is if you haven't yet, go ahead and do that. And the reason for that is because it's not going to be optional soon. So middle of February, expect uh your workspace to get switched over to 4.0 with the option to revert back if you absolutely need to, but then come middle of March, kind of a mandatory, hey, you've got to upgrade to 4.0. So, uh there's been there's been buzz around this uh on LinkedIn and on Reddit uh that I've seen over the past week. Um, and so just be aware that that's coming. It is seriously an upgrade. Uh, episode one of ClickUp Weekly, we walk through more of ClickUp 4.0. We have the ClickUp 4.0 playbook uh that has gone out to some folks uh already. If you haven't received that yet, shoot me an email, gray@zenpilot.com. I can get you early access to that. That'll be going up in larger form uh on the site. And on YouTube, we'll have a a video for that as well. That'll help walk you through all the changes, all the things you need to know. And then for your specific workspace, there may be other things you need. So reach out to us if you need some assistance making the move over and training your team on ClickUp 4.0. Um and we've got some really simple ways to work with us uh to make that transition smooth. So um you can go to zenpilot.com/call and book a conversation with our team to walk through what that looks like. Okay, now it gets fun. Let's talk about the wish list here. So, uh, there's one thing that I wanted to call out here, and that is the Teamsshub org chart, and this one is, um, being built. Um, there's kind of some initial versions of this. I'm not sure if you have access to, uh, play with that or not, but basically taking from the Teams hub and building out kind of an interactive org chart. I used to think this is crazy. Uh, I was like, why are people so excited about these org chart features? um and they keep getting built into different tools. But it actually is super helpful. And what's um really cool about these types of features also is the more that we've got stuff intermixed like people versus agents versus whatever else like the more helpful just understanding hey what are the lines between who does what who's responsible for for what and where. At Zenpalot we run on a system called EOS the entrepreneurial operating system. Um, that is an awesome system. Instead of having an org chart, they talk about having an accountability chart, not necessarily as a replacement, but certainly as the more important document. I think that's super helpful and fits really well in this idea of agents as well. So, you can see there was um, you know, on this one specifically, not a huge amount of volume in terms of up votes, but kind of an easy feature to build out that will be helpful uh, for folks especially in larger organizations. So, wanted to call that out uh here today in terms of what's on the wish list. Okay, this next one I want to pull up uh not because I hate ClickUp or want to put it on blast simply because I think this is a common frustration and I want to address it. I want to help uh anybody out who's feeling it. So, both of these are really around frustrations. So, I think you're going to get a mix on this like what to expect on ClickUp Weekly is just kind of like an honest look at it. I'm going to be excited about this. Like I'm generally optimistic. So, that's my bias is um it doesn't bother me if the something gets rolled out. Like my bias is I'm okay with being an early adopter. If I can see the promise and see where things are going, I believe that ClickUp by launching stuff and having it not quite be perfect gets further along than if they waited until everything was 100% perfect and then rolled out two new features a year. I realize that would probably help their customer support team out quite a bit, but I'm okay with um I'd rather have product velocity and that's what makes me a big believer in ClickUp. So, my bias is a little bit towards u being optimistic. I'll still call out when there's issues, but they don't um tend to stress me out where I'm like, hey, this is it's got to be really serious for me to to get really upset about something. >> Um so, that is my bias. But if [clears throat] we lay that aside, my hope in ClickUp Weekly is that you get kind of an unbiased look at the platform. So, hey, where are their real frustrations? Where are the things to really get excited about? Where are their real actions to take based on this is the lay of the land and this is the reality of what we're working with today. Okay, enough said. So, this is a message that I got here uh the other day on LinkedIn and let's [clears throat] just go through. I'll read it out to you. Hey, Greg. Hope it was with you looking at your ClickUp weekly video. The problem we have is that we've had ClickUp for so long. Everything is a hodgepodge. You tell me what hodgepodge is. Uh this person is in uh Europe. So for all I know, hodge podge is probably the right way to do this. And I've only ever heard hodge podge. Um so who knows who's right there. If you know, leave a comment. Let me know. Um and then listen, I've known this person for years. Uh I love and respect them. So the dashboard that you display your version on in the video is dark. Totally agree with a comment on YouTube that it is hard to read and that is why today for you my friend ClickUp Weekly the ClickUp interface is in light mode. My much preferred dark mode. Uh we're keeping it in light mode for you to be able to see it better. Okay. So good feedback. You guys give me feedback like that. Sometimes I'll be stubborn and refuse. Sometimes I will listen and cooperate. Uh, but here's [clears throat] the reality and I would imagine this is why I want to share is I'd imagine there's some other people um who feel the same thing. I can't see anything like what you're displaying in my dashboard. So there's what is Zen Pilot seeing on YouTube? It all looks great. In reality, I'm not feeling it. In fact, I find it really hard to navigate anything in ClickUp anymore. Uh, some specific product stuff. Calendar notifications are inconsistent. We had a support ticket. uh you know for someone else they've disappeared and this is the crux of it right we're not sure whether to just scrap it all start again with the latest version but that sounds like a huge task we want to keep our main workspace and individual spaces for clients folders for campaigns types of work with lists task subtasks whatever truth is our team has always hated using clickup and fought against it because it doesn't work properly for them remember we came over from do inbound we'll talk about do inbound a little bit later um don't know where to start I've tried getting perplexity chat if you needed to help but they don't always have the most up-to-date files. So, we go down rabbit holes with wrong info. Boy, I see that all the time. The number of teams now uh compared to like a year or two ago who were like, "Hey, we started in this setup uh CHTP was amazing uh or we're using Claude and it's told us all these things to do and we've even fed it your YouTube channel uh and stuff like that." But now we're getting into it and we're like, I don't know that this is actually like does this actually solve for everything that we want. Um, and this is the this is the cool part is like these AI tools are doing so many things really well and there will still always be plenty of room for truly world-class experts at this. Um, so I think if just let this be an encouragement to you if you're running specifically like a a knowledge based or expertise-based business, um, I would just encourage you not to feel so threatened by the AI tools and feeling like, oh man, they're going to take our jobs like I might not have anything here in two years to do in two years. Um, everyone's going to be, you know, just figuring out this out for themselves. Um there will always be a gap between what the computers know to do now and what somebody who knows how to use those computers plus has the domain expertise and years of experience in this field know how to do. So there is a a huge need today. Our pipeline is only greater today than it was preAI tools kind of taking over everything. Okay. Um [clears throat] we're still referencing those AI tools here. So, what they did seem to say was that based on what we say we need, ClickUp is still probably the best option. This one I would agree with uh especially for this specific person's situation. Any thoughts on how I can make ClickUp work better for us was the part that's cut off here in the screenshot or something to that effect. So, [sighs] what can we take from this? First of all, if you're in that situation, like feel not necessarily encouraged, but at least not alone. Like there are other people who are in that same situation who are looking at YouTube videos saying it all looks like it works so well. Why does it not work like that for me? So this person would really benefit from working with us at Zen Pilot to get this set up um or somebody who knows what the heck they're doing and how to make it work in this situation. The number of teams we've worked with who've booked a call feeling um sometimes it can come across sometimes aggressive. uh certainly um a little bit adversarial or a little bit like uh we've already invested so we don't want to switch off of ClickUp because we've jump shipped before. The truth is like we've jumped tools four times before and nothing solved it either. Um so we don't want to give up on it. Um but we're we just like there's this real animosity towards the tool right now because it doesn't seem to work for us. [clears throat] and the number of times now that we've gotten to work with that team and then they become a success story on the website or somewhere else later and they've got folks who like love and become huge ClickUp champions. Um that's really encouraging to me and hopefully it's encouraging to you too that not always there certainly are technical issues in any any software but 99% of the time that's a hey the system is just not built for your success right now like not a systems like the way that you are specifically implementing it and the way that you're training and leading your team and the way that you're leading into that is not like contributing to your success. Um so the system that you've designed today there's the old W Edwards Deming quote around um you know the system is perfectly designed every system is perfectly designed to get the results that it is getting meaning if you're not getting the results you want like that's a result of your systems design and that either feels uh oppressive to you and you're like no no no come on it's not my fault like the tool should just know what I want or it feels uh empower and you feel like you're being blamed for something or it feels empowering in that the responsibility uh is an opportunity. It's both yeah, hey, you messed it up. You put yourself in this situation. So, take the blame, take the responsibility for that. And the huge opportunity and the exciting part is if it was your fault that it's this way to begin with. Then it can also be your fault to fix it, right? And that could be you go educate the crap out of yourself. Figure out how to do this. Figure out how to lead your team well. set the right standards and empower them and build the right tools, process and habits across your entire organization to be successful or you go hire the right people who can come in and help you with it uh and lead through that. So here's the most common like the common denominators in what is so frustrating. Um and this is really basic stuff like the hierarchy and the organization. In fact, you guys are going to not not appreciate that I do this if you've watched a lot of our videos. But like do you have a coherent methodology at the beginning? Is there a starting point? So this single source of truth like this is the first place that a lot of people struggle with is are we actually getting all all our stuff in there? And then could I figure out pretty easily by logging into the platform where does this stuff go? It's a marketing task. Do I think that goes in growth delivery operations? Probably in growth. Probably in marketing. Okay. It's you know whatever list it should be associated with. That's where it goes. That's kind of step one is like what's the hierarchy of this? Does it make sense? And so therefore, if I needed to go see all the stuff related to a specific client, could I go here to the client overview page and get, oh, okay, like here's the key details about the client. Here's where we stand in terms of, you know, our progress on this stuff. Could I go into those specific projects and figure stuff out? Like does the hierarchy make sense to people? Part of that is, is it intuitive for the team? Part of that is, have you trained the team to know where to go? you know, is there any kind of standardized onboarding for it? Second piece is there's no universal methodology. So, let's jump back here. I'm going to skip ahead a little bit here to the second principle. There's no universal methodology for how you prioritize work. Some people put it in there just assign it to themselves. Some people in put it in there, don't have due dates, don't assign it to themselves. Some people put it in there and do all of them. Some people are working in sprints, but everyone's got a different methodology. All of them could be valid. There's certainly pros and cons to each of them, but there's no shared agreement on, hey, how do we decide and reflect what's the most important work uh in the system. So, prioritizing work using due dates is the simplest way and the right approach for most of you watching this to go agree on here's the work that needs to get done in what order. Um, so every actionable task in the system must have a due date and those tasks should get completed either before or on that due date. So the catchphrase here is due date equals due date. What this then is going to allow is a way to create a view in the system. So I'm going to hit H here to go to my home view and see all my tasks grouped by due dates. And I could grab this for everybody in the organization. Let's go to all tasks. And if I wanted to see it by everybody, I could. Or if I wanted to see this, you know, not in me mode and filter this out by specific assignees. I could go grab it and narrow this down into, hey, what does Alex have uh on his plate here? Looks like he's got some work that's due today, coming up tomorrow. But it gives me one easy way to see and manage um like where's this work coming from. All right, I'm not going to bore you with the rest of those. The the one other one that I will hit on though is this third one. Make the process live where the work gets done. The more that you take the repeatable work you do, templatize it, and build it out. And this is the piece um that with all this excitement about AI, this piece is getting lost a lot is like, hey, how do we still it's so easy to just spin up AI and say kind of loosey goosey go create, you know, a website uh build project for me with all the tasks. And it is so exciting. It's almost like addicting to see parent tasks and subtasks get built out, time estimates get thrown on, um, you know, due dates get built out, and it's it truly is like 70% of the way there. And it's like, oh, that took 60 seconds to do. This is incredible. Like, we're living life on easy mode. Well, if you execute that plan at 70%, you are going to produce a terrible outcome and you're going to have an awful experience doing it. And so is your team and so are your clients. So, you cannot stop there. like you've got to go the distance on this stuff. And I'm so tired of just seeing over and over like it's so exciting. It got us 70% of the way there. Well, what did you do to get the rest of the 30%. Like, oh, we didn't, you know, like it was pretty cool. So, we tried to reprompt it a couple times and then it got to 85% and then we called it good. Um, maybe in some areas that works fine. Uh, certainly you can get away with that more on smaller teams or on your own projects. Does not work well in a larger team environment. So, um that's my hopeful hope hopefully that's encouragement um for you specifically who wrote this and for anybody else who's in this situation like what we ought to do is we ought to work together to say what are the outcomes that we need out of the system. Um and most of them we already know like visibility I've got a huge lack of visibility. Uh my team doesn't know where to go or how to work. We don't trust the system right now. we need just a couple views for my team to go to and not feel like, hey, it's just constantly not working properly for them. I promise you, if they get used to a my tasks view, uh, or now what ClickUp is calling the home view, uh, set up the right way and they're living out of there for 90% of their experience in ClickUp, like they will have a much better experience. All right, enough preaching from me. I want to share that because this um, this is like, you know, pretty hey, this is a challenge. This is a challenge. This is a challenge, but it's not unusual to have some variant of this. So, hopefully that's helpful. If you are struggling with stuff like this, reach out, book a call with us at zenpilot.com/call, and we can just walk you through like, hey, honestly, here's the things that you need. I don't care that you use our methodology. Um, ours works super well. If you've got a different one, that's fine. But if you throw your team out there with zero methodology, no approach, like no philosophy, how are we going to work? How are we going to deliver quality work consistently over time and get better and better systematically? Um, you're cursing yourself in terms of your ability to scale great outcomes for your clients uh at profit margins for yourself. Okay, then I wanted to pull this one up. Let's keep going on the frustration train, right? What's the most frustrating part about ClickUp? Leave a comment. Let me know. I'd love to hear you. I asked that question on LinkedIn a couple days ago. I I called out a couple um that I see over and over and actually we saw some of that reflected there. Um but there were some really good things called out. So um Ally and Khazar, if I'm saying your name wrong, I apologize. Uh most click problems aren't tool issues. Uh that's definitely true. Workflow and habit issues or what we would say process and habit issues, same thing, right? Um so thanks for [clears throat] using that like same language. We've got tools, we got processes, we've got habits. Those are the three keys to nailing this. Um, and so, you know, this is like this is right on in terms of uh where the challenges are. And we see this all the time, too. Like you may be in this boat as you're walking this. I've rebuilt ClickUp, you know, a handful of times because it's like, oh, it's so close, but it doesn't quite doesn't quite work. Max called out, hey, um, when you've got all your communication happening over here and then ClickUp over here, that's a little bit of a challenge. And so, I just shared our experience going to ClickUp chat. And, um, and Max called some stuff out as well. I thought this is worth calling out like um, I'll just expand these so that you can you can read them here. Um, [clears throat] but this happens all the time. like we got excited, we started playing with it, we started the migration and then life kicked in. Like we got busy, some more clients reached out um like we've got to get these projects done. Uh that's going to happen with any tool switch that you look at. Um there will always be like a step backwards or some kind of investment or pain to build a better system and infrastructure for the future. To me, the benefits of having ClickUp chat, all that chat natively inside ClickUp, so all of your context is living in one place. We really are building that single source of truth, that to me way outweighs the benefits of using Google chat for our specific use case or Slack or another platform. U but that's not painless to go make the move. And [clears throat] so I said this somewhat tongue and cheek, but like hey, this is the perfect place to plug Zen Pilot and what we're doing because when you're trying to get in, you're playing with it. you're playing with kind of, you know, variables in terms of how much availability you have, how much excitement. How do you how do you tell your team with conviction, here's the way we're going to use it when it's your first time ever building it. Like I've struggled with that for years. Um, EOS, like, hey, I want confidence in how we roll this out for the team. I've read all the books, but it's still my first time doing this. We finally gave in, hired an imple begrudgingly. Um, [clears throat] and working with an imple gave us so much more confidence um, in in like how we roll out EOS and truly nail it. Um, and so that was, you know, I called that one out. Jeffrey had a good um, like echo of the same thing, habits. David called it out. Um, Ally called out kind of that first point here, right? Like competing with Slack and email. It's still hard when things are living in different places uh, to make it work. and Moyes called out like buy in from the executive level is crucial. Tell me what your biggest frustrations are. Like I'd love to build more content specific to that. Uh I'll speak to you specifically if you are if you're the decision maker, the decision maker, the owner, president, CEO, and you're watching this um and you're having challenges with ClickUp, you should be reaching out and and talking with us, talk with somebody who does this. But if you're not, I'd love for you to leave a comment. And what I'd love to do is create content that empowers you to share it with your uh leadership team where it's, hey, here's the pain point that we're experiencing it uh right now. How do we solve this at an organizational level? Um I'd love to have content on our channel that helps you communicate in the words uh that are kind of perfect for the leadership team in the situation that they're in to understand. Hey, as long as you're unwilling to make an investment into moving to ClickUp chat or uh logging our emails here, you know, whatever else, like we're always going to have a couple different silos happening and there's just going to be some costs that are that are born out of that as long as we don't have a methodology like you know, we can't get there. The purpose of creating that content is because um you know like it's so hard to be the messenger internally at times and we could say the same thing from the outside. This is why EOS was so helpful for us. My my best friend, my business partner Andrew and I have been running businesses together for uh a decade and there were these ideas that we had and you read through traction the core book of EOS for the first time and you're like this is dumb. This is so simple. These are like basic business fundamentals. Um but yeah, we should do that. We should have a scorecard. Like we should have a consistent meeting cadence. Um we should have quarterly goals that we're going after that are tracked and there's accountability to you know like we should have all these things. Having it come from a third party and an outside source. Uh made it much easier to just stop fighting over and just go do uh which was a huge blessing for us. Okay, this is my favorite part of the show. Let's spend a couple minutes here on trivia time. So last week uh I asked you these two questions. Which existing feature in ClickUp? Again, available from the navigation in ClickUp. If you go into ClickUp 4.0, you go to customize your navigation. You're going to get 13 different options here. Which of these features has seen the fewest updates in the past year? You know what it is? D goals is the answer. You're right. uh be interested to see where goals goes long term. But that since uh roll out has been uh by the teams who use it, it's really used. A number of other teams have realized, hey, let's use uh ClickUp custom task types. Um and let's just create like a separate goals uh feature set using the other tools in ClickUp that work super well. Uh so goals is the answer there. If you answer goals, congratulation. Give yourself a point. And let's see if you got number two. This was not about ClickUp specifically. This is about Zen Pilot. Before partnering with ClickUp in early 2018, what did Zen Pilot do? If you don't know, obviously Joe uh Joe um knows and uh and hopefully you know as well. So, uh before partnering with Flip 2018, we ran a business called Do Inbound and it was a software company. It was a project management software. So, we launched it in 2013. Um came out of beta. uh launched it. It was built for inbound marketing agencies specifically. That's what I built um prior to uh the software side and so the software came out of kind of solving a need for ourselves. Then we rolled it out into the marketplace and I thought it would be hilarious to pull up an old we went to the wayback machine and pull this up. So let's go find the wayback machine. Boy, this is embarrassing to go see but I thought you you'd have fun doing manage track scale. Those were our three things. I still like this idea of like our best customers are. So from a positioning perspective, but it was a project, we called it project and process management software. Um so if you're an inbound marketing agency, we were giving you kind of our processes just like we do today. Um [clears throat] one of the big benefits you get when you work with Zen Pilot is you get access to whole Zen Pilot ClickUp install, which is obviously a ton of ClickUp stuff built. That's great. But a ton of processes, client onboarding, offboarding, how do you do specific services? How do you do internal operations growth? Like there's a ton of templates um in there. Um and that idea, the reason for that, the reason we put so much energy and effort into those things is because uh that was a huge part of helping agencies be successful early on with Do Inbound. It was pretty funny. Uh funny to see our friends here. Rob, uh who's gone on to do a bunch of stuff in the high level ecosystem um is a rockstar there. Um [clears throat] you know, like do better work was a kind of funny how simple a lot of these taglines were. Um and it worked well. And sorry to disappoint you. It was a hundred bucks a month per client from this version. You can see there's a couple other versions if you go to the wayback machine and you could see this kind of built out over time. But anyways, I thought that would be uh pretty funny to pull up and share with you. This is obviously from, you know, 2014 uh or 2015. This was February of 2015 that this went live. There's our first office. Like funny to see plus mentioned like, oh my goodness, there's a there's a plus. Um like that was something that we put some resources into at the time. So funny to roll back the clock and see where this went. Uh the whole reason that we transitioned, I'll tell this story super quickly was [clears throat] um we grew this business to a little over 500 customers. Um but we really struggled with churn. So customers turned out every month. There were almost everyone monthtomonth uh contracts. Um and so we had a good number of customers turn out every month. And as we grew that became harder and harder uh to keep up with. And so our choice was kind of either like we got to really invest in this software to hit the same type of feature set. You know, I remember ASA announcing, hey, we're raising $70 million and being like, boy, we're bootstrapping this thing. We're just taking profits from our agency, Guava Box. We're putting it into do inbound to build this out and finance the development of this software. Um [clears throat] like we've either got to go raise money to be able to to do this sustainably and really grow aggressively on the product side. um or we're going to have to pivot the business. Well, to solve the churn problem, what we started doing was coaching these agency owners and operators and we'd teach them the right processes, how to customize the pro processes for themselves. Part of the churn idea was the tool was very um opinionated. So, if you had strong like it was very processoriented, if you had strong processes, you loved it and did well. And if you didn't, you really struggled with it. You ready for the punch line? [clears throat] this probably won't surprise you. Most agencies still true today don't have strong processes um in terms of documentation actually written standards on here's how we're going to do it. Um and so there's a lot of turn. So to solve that problem we started doing consulting and helping them through part of our onboarding program was like hey we'll help you design map out improve your processes we'll train your team to run on it. Turned out those people stuck around in the software and absolutely loved it. The problem was we were just burning money uh operating at a loss on boarding all these folks. And so we had to figure out like what are we going to do? We're clearly better. All the agencies that love us are loving us for this process improvement um for the like the insights that we have about hey we've been in the trenches. We've run and scaled agencies. Like we can take those principles and help you uh implement those in your organization. Um, and so how do we like keep doing the part that they're loving us for and build the software, struggle with that, and wind up deciding not to raise money and pivot into, hey, we're going to um do what the market is rewarding us for. Um, whether they may not be financially rewarding us for, but this is what they're loving, uh, and where they're finding true value and differentiation in what we were offering versus what else was, uh, on the marketplace. And, um, and so that led into a pivot. Then that led us to figuring out like well hey we don't want to go implement on top of all these other tools because what people love the most is they're getting operational uh strategies and insights from people who know what the heck they're talking about but it's paired with a tool where they can go deploy and take advantage of that stuff incredibly quickly. So the gap between yeah I learn something and I get to go apply something was extremely small. So, we knew we wanted to build on top of a single tool, and that led us to going through 71 different PM tools. Uh, let's see if this blog is still around. [clears throat] So, we went through uh 71 different tools over six months, choosing ClickUp um ultimately as the one to double down on, and that bet uh has has paid off big time. So anyways, enough about us and uh and the story, but I just want to give you that context and background on the Zen pilot story. We were dom previously pivoted, rebranded and uh and things have been um really good in that partnership with ClickUp since then. Obviously ClickUp super early in 2018. How early I'm not going to say because that is uh going to be part of our trivia for this week. Um and now it's you [clears throat] know it is really ramped up which is awesome. Okay, let's go to this week's trivia. You ready? Question number one of ClickUp Weekly Trivia Time. ClickUp was originally built as an internal tool before being released to the public. But in what year did the company get its first paying customer? You know the answer. Leave a comment. Let us know. You'll go one for one on the first question of trivia time. Question number two, nothing to do with ClickUp. Question two of ClickUp Weekly Trivia Time. What's the only food that never goes bad? Uh, if you Google this one, you'll find it right away. So, don't Google it or uh search in your favorite uh AI tool. Just take a guess at this one. Leave a comment. Let me know. Question number three, ClickUp Weekly Trivia Time. Question three, what do you call the plastic tip at the end of a shoelace? This one I just learned recently and so I had to share it because uh why not, right? Everybody needs to know what that's called. You know, there's little like plastic tips at the end and if you're ever like uh you know, you got to scratch away at something, you're using your shoelace to kind of scratch it. Well, why did those come about and what are they called specifically is the question. All right, that's this week's trivia time. If you know the answers or don't know the answers, leave a comment, entertain me. Um, I'll give a shout out to the best guests uh best guesses [clears throat] or funniest guesses here in uh next week's edition of ClickUp Weekly. Okay, how about you? Let's get you involved. Subscribe on YouTube. Uh, answer the trivia questions. Leave a comment. Email showzenpilot.com if you'd like to be involved. So, if you'd like to uh come on, I'll be featuring some guests, some interviews uh as we go. Um, and so if you've got a great story to share about your ClickUp experience and a showand tell of something that you've built that's awesome in ClickUp, email showpilot.com. Um, we have already gotten some of those scheduled. Uh, we'll get more of those as well. Subscribe to First Class Operations. That's our bi-weekly newsletter for early access to ClickUp 4.0 playbook.newsletter. And as I mentioned earlier, ClickUp Weekly is presented exclusively by Zenpilot. Neither sponsored nor endorsed by ClickUp. Hey, uh, great being with you here, um, for some time today. Um, I appreciate you being with me and I'll see you next week for another episode of ClickUp Weekly.